Rena:

Hello, and welcome to the arena. I’m Rena Lewis, founder and chief strategy advisor at signature intentions and host of the arena podcast and today’s episode, I am super excited and delighted to have as my guest, a former comrade in arms and current dear friend for life Brian Campagna . Yeah, Brian has spent his illustrious 30 year career as a marketing sales and sales enablement leader. He has worked for some of the largest commercial banks in the world spent 18, 18 years at KPMG and various leadership positions. And he now leads industry marketing and north America for Aon, a leading global professional services firm that provides a wide range of commercial risk retirement re-insurance and health solutions. Personally, I’d like to add that I had the pleasure of meeting Brian back in 2008 when we worked together at KPMG in various capacities. And I can say from firsthand experience that this exceptional warrior is relentlessly helpful, patiently persistent, and is always on the lookout for the most creative and innovative solutions. He genuinely conveys a passion for everything he does, especially on the topic of mentorship and paying it forward. In addition to everything else on his plate, he’s currently mentoring five senior leadership professionals and has been formally recognized many times by KPMG for his commitment to inspiring others. He has certainly been a source of unwavering inspiration for me, and I’m thrilled that we get to spend this time together. So hello and welcome to the arena, Brian.

Brian:

Well, hi. I actually cannot believe I’m actually in the arena. It’s amazing. I’m feeling very good, very strong, like a warrior.

Rena:

Well that you are. Great. So let’s jump right in by hearing a bit more about your career journey thus far, please.

Brian:

Well, I’ve got to say it’s probably what you would call just the classical work experience. You know, high school college. I attended Purdue University grad school, Pace university in Manhattan have worked for some of the, some of the largest commercial banks, chemical bank manufacturers, Hanover, Bank of New York, kind of pick your, pick your name. They’ve all gone through their various stages of mergers and acquisitions. I spent time at Chase, but I spent 18 years, like you said, over at KPMG in the professional services world where I think I kind of learned the most about how to be kind of a creative marketer, how to drive value, how to work within a matrix organization. And now in January I started a new role as the industry marketing leader for North America over at Aon so thrilled to have that role.

Brian:

It’s, it’s been kind of a classical journey. And when I talk about it like that, I, you know, I almost think like when I’m, when I’m kind of lecturing my son, he would always say, Hey, you know, what was it like dad, when you were kind of coming up? And I really kind of talk about just this commitment. This we used to commute to Manhattan. It was an hour and a half on the train. We stopped to be at our desk by eight 30 in the morning in his suit five days a week. You know? So I think that part of, you know, the younger, the younger generation coming up, not really understanding that commitment to kind of face time and showing up at those, those big dream organizations where you really want it to work.

Rena:

And in New York city, that’s like you, it’s the city that never sleeps. And I have to laugh because you’re so right. Clearly we are boomers who started our careers in banking. And I too remember the days, particularly in banking when we had to sit up from head to toe every single day. So hearing you say that just made me laugh and flash back to those days when we had to invest those serious dollars into our wardrobe,

Brian:

I always dreamed like this was back in the eighties, right? So I always dreamed of working on wall street. That’s what I kind of grew up with. So that was 1987. I’m dating myself, but, and my first job wasn’t exactly wall street. It was water street. So if you were from familiar with downtown Manhattan, it’s close to wall street. And I eventually did get to 48 wall street with with bank of New York. But, but that was kind of the, the dream, you know, setting a goal and kind of setting yourself to kind of arrive in a certain place. That was, that was what I was really aiming for back in the back in the mid eighties.

Rena:

Absolutely. I’m with you on that. Now I’ve talked about you’re being a wonderful source of inspiration for others, but I’m curious to know who has most inspired you during your career?

Brian:

Well, that’s an, that is a great question. I think just part of coming up is as a, as a business professional, or just kind of coming up in general, I think, you know, who you wind up associating yourself with as a, as a community, but also who mentors you and that’s kind of a big word. So I, in my life I’ve had really just kind of three, I would call it three mentors. And so my first and earliest was my best friend’s mom Louise. And so growing up, I had my, you know, my appearance had gone through kind of a rough divorce and, you know, she was kind of silent, but recognized it and didn’t want to make any waves. So she actually hired me to paint her house and that required since I wasn’t driving at the time that required me kind of staying over at my best friend’s house all summer.

Brian:

And that was my job to paint the house. But, you know, a mom’s keen observation of perhaps some turbulent times, you know, helping others because you really care and kind of saving the soul, you know, just trying to make sure that a person doesn’t get caught up in kind of the, the exterior surroundings. And that’s kind of like what, what a mentor does helping you stay focused. So that was my first my second was my first boss at KPMG, Karen. And so in a big matrix organization like KPMG with all of the pomp and circumstance that surrounds virtually everything that you do from presentations to to business cases, she would always say, just remember Brian, it’s all not that serious. It’s, you know, remember Kabuki theater where, you know, so much of Kabuki theater is just show and, and serve, you know, circumstance.

Brian:

And when you really cut away all the layers it’s about some basic fundamental blocking and tackling and, and driving value and, and making sure that, you know, at the end of the day, you’re answering kind of questions to business challenges. And then my third mentor was a gentleman by the name of Ken Daley. He was a very senior partner over at KPMG back in the day. And, and this is a great story where, you know, I had had kind of come up. I had finally gotten my moment to make this very big presentation in front of some senior KPMG leaders for a new idea that I was kind of proposing. And as I was giving the presentation I clearly lost, you know, the, the, the, the main person I was trying to persuade. So I could see, you know, I was measuring the crowd as I was giving my presentation and I clearly lost him.

Brian:

And so I was thinking to myself, do I need a haircut? You know, do I need, as the presentation is going on? And so in these big meetings at KPMG, there’s typically when your presentation is over, you sit down at the table and then the next presenter goes up and it’s kind of very cordial, very polite. But in this instance the senior executive actually, you know, when I finished, he kind of greeted me and, you know, put his hand on my shoulder and kind of ushered me out to the door of the, of the conference room. And I was kind of confirming the notion that I think I really bombed this one. And so I walked out and I don’t know about two seconds later, I hear this big Oak door shut again. And I turned around and it’s Ken. And he said, Campagna, I like your style as of Monday, you work for me.

Brian:

And so that was the beginning of, yeah, my, my, my working for really one of the most senior partners at the firm. And my story is once that happened and just thinking about the power of relationships and the power of networking and the power of adding value it was kind of like the mafia, you know, I felt like I got, I got me, you know, by the by the by, by the senior, by the senior group. And my life was a little bit easier when we were talking about how to get new through the doors were a little bit more generously open, perhaps. And I think I got a lot more traction just by by, by being kind of affiliated with somebody that had great credibility at the firm already. So if this guy’s all right because I say, so then let’s give, let’s give his proposal of listen or maybe a little bit more more deeper thought. So loved it, three mentors. And to this day, I think about them all the time.

Rena:

Wow. I love that. I love that you recognized number one, your best friend’s mom. I think that is that, that was wonderful. And I love the analogies, the Kabuki theater analogy and the getting made analogy. I think that’s that’s great. So thank you for sharing, for sharing those. How about the best advice that you’ve ever received?

Brian:

I think, you know, everybody always talks about success and success is, you know, even as parents, we’re always talking about hate to the kids, Hey, you know, we want you to be successful, but I don’t think that anybody really defines it. So I got, I really have gotten some good advice around the topic of success. Right. So, Hmm. So in its simplest form, like, so how do you break it down to a freshmen in college? Like my son at the time. And so I would just kind of define it as success is merely the progressive realization of a worthy, ideal or goal. Like, so I looked that up. I mean, I just like, those are kind of somebody else’s words, not, not necessarily mine, but I like them because it breaks it down to something simple. Right. So it’s just picking a goal and then a progressive approach to that goal.

Brian:

So it could be something that somebody else considers very innocuous and to you is very important, but at the end of the day, if you’re breaking it down to something that is specific and maybe a bit measurable that, that it’s just, this you’re always progressing. And then when you get that, then that is success. You know, it could be like having a cup of coffee in the morning, you know, because I have a broken leg, you know, success could really just be getting that cup of coffee. You know what I mean? So that, so that I think is important to just kind of really breaking that down. And then Ken would always say, you know, something 75% of actually being successful to achieving that goal is actually just showing up. All you have to do is show up and you’re three quarters of the way there.

Brian:

So many people get mired up in, you know, overthinking things or, or, or we’re getting into too much detail, just there’s, if there’s a challenge or an issue, just show up 75% of that success is right there. And then when you show up, he would always say, successful people at KPMG or, or other only really need three things. When you show up one, you gotta be courageous, right? You’ve gotta be, you’ve gotta have a little bit of swagger. And you can not be afraid to bring energy, to, you know, bring energy and passion to, to what you’re doing. People feel it, you know what I mean? Like you can say a lot of things, but when you’re passionate and you have energy towards something, that goal people feel it and they want to typically get involved or help. The third thing he would always say is just keep integrity with others front and center. So show up. And he would always say that, you know, that courageousness it, you know, he’d say that the opposite of courage is not cowardice it’s conformity, right? So don’t conform be courageous and create something new. And that is in my mind, a very simple definition about success, but the best advice that I’ve gotten over my career.

Rena:

Wow. I love that. And I think you’re right. And I’m thinking about, as I’m hearing you listening to you, and I’m thinking about that, that conformity, that’s a, it’s a really good point. Conformity, after all conformity is people acting like everyone else are doing the same things without understanding why, without knowing where they’re being led or the possibilities from from re-imagining what might be it’s like what we do in marketing continuously trying new things, testing, learning, and iterating towards making better connections and building and during valuable relationships for mutual benefit which is an ongoing process, like our life experiences as well. I also agree that it’s how you show up. I always say energy flows where intention goes. So I know Tony Robbins uses attention, but I believe it’s more about your intention because as he does say, you need a clear goal that has purpose and meaning behind it.

Rena:

And when you learn how to focus your energy and become obsessive about the goal, amazing things happen. And finally you’re right on point in terms of integrity, regardless of what happens, no one can take that away from you. So I think that’s, that’s really good good advice to take to heart. So thank you for sharing that. So now let’s dive into your life as a marketing leader at Aon. And I really like Aon’s mission to empower economic and human possibility for clients, colleagues, and communities around the world. Particularly during this time when those topics have never been more important. So tell us about your exciting and fairly new role as head of industry marketing, along with perhaps your vision or the strategic priorities that you have for you and your team to help the firm achieve that, that mission.

Brian:

Yeah. So so thanks for asking about that. Yeah. So I’m only four months in, and I have spent as anyone likely woods, I’ve spent a lot of time really kind of being on this kind of listening tour for, with industry leadership, right? So Aon’s massive. It’s a massive global organization and the go-to-market strategy has been around long, long, long time before Brian companion arrived. And so the industry marketing organization is kind of coming up. I don’t know that it’s as formalized as perhaps some of the other competing organizations. So that the, the industry bit of what I’m doing at the moment really is about consultation. It’s about listening to the 23 different industry leaders stakeholders, because it’s important not to push your value proposition until you really kind of understand and try to meet people where they already are right.

Brian:

Versus, and they’re all in different places. So I think as a new person, the best thing that you can do before you’re kind of pushing all kinds of new concepts and ideas is really to go on that kind of listening tour to really start to understand strategic marketing imperatives of your stakeholders. So I’m doing that. So that’s the, that’s the first thing. And I think when you talk about any of these massive organizations, there’s always this unification that everybody is always trying to rally around and for Aon, it’s called DAU Delivering Aon United. And so that just really means the power of the firm. Like how do we harness the power of the firm? I think what happens in any, any major sized organizations, there’s this potential for a silo driven culture and for any listener out there that that is that is working in, you know, in any sizable company, like they’re nodding their head.

Brian:

Yes. Like, oh my God, the silos are always that the thing that we have to navigate. So when you’re new, you don’t have that historical knowledge of how the silos have been built, where they are, where the power is. And so getting an understanding of how to create the synergy of the silos. That’s a lot of S’s. But, but you know, that’s, for me, as I’m listening, I’m like, oh my God, they have a very similar strategic imperative over here. And a lot of the heavy lifting has already been done. So can we not pack the power of the DAU? Can we not pack the power of the firm behind the strategic imperative and the only re- and the answer was always yes. It’s just because that the awareness and everybody really trying very hard to do a great job.

Brian:

And so you’re running fast, you’re running curious, or trying to deliver value. But they often times need like a new guy like me. Who’s talking to a lot of different stakeholders and starting to connect the dots perhaps on ways to to leverage different, important pieces of things that are already built already going on, things are being built. And so that’s really one of the things I’m enjoying most about the new role. And I think really one of the things people appreciate the most versus somebody like dropping in from KPMG that, that has this whole vision of how things should run. And I think that would be contrary to the purpose. So I’m enjoying that, that whole bit of kind of awareness and learning. And, you know, as, as I hope we’ll talk about in the podcast, just the power of relationships, the power of figuring out who, you know, who are the, who are the stakeholders? How do we help them the best? How do we connect dots? I think all of that is, is driven by the, you know, the, the people that, you know, and that people that you’re working with to come to an ultimate way to, to ensure that what people are after is getting accomplished.

Rena:

I think that’s a really smart way led approach that you have Brian, you know, coming into this role as an, as a, you know, as a new leader within the organization to really stop, take a moment, pause, and really not ha not coming in with any preconceived notions about what things should be, or how things should work or how you’d like them to work, but really doing that listening tour that you mentioned where you are you know, hearing, I, you know, the old adage that says people don’t care how much, you know, until they first know how much you care. So, and I think listening is a sign of caring and of sign of building those trusted partner relationships that you are endeavoring to, to build there at Aon. And so I think it’s really smart of you to, you know, to do that and to see the synergies.

Rena:

And I think you also probably will bring a great perspective because you’ve also regarding the silos, you know, you’ve been in sales business development position, so you understand, you know, the nuances of those and, and you know, what they, what they need and what they require and what they value from their marketing partners. I think you bring that unique perspective about, you know just hearing and asking the right and, and, and actively listening and asking the right questions so that you are, you know, building that great foundation so that when you do come out with your recommendations, they are in alignment with you know, with the things that you’ve heard and absorbed and learned. So really smart of you to do that.

Brian:

Yeah. I, you know, don’t get me wrong. I definitely have my point of view about how things should run. I just don’t think that the time is right until I’ve really kind of heard from everyone. I mean, if you got into the, the, the tactical side of it, Rena, it would be okay, let’s listen in, let’s hear what’s going on. Okay. Let’s create industry narratives. Let’s create points of differentiation, target modeling. Where’s the sweet spot between, you know, marketing strategy, brand, client relationship sales. There’s so many different moving parts that I think there’s part of this being a sponge absorption, but not, no, definitely having your point of view. And I think sometimes you’re almost validating your point of view as you go along and you’re starting to hear like, yeah, I knew that was going to be an issue. Good thing. I didn’t say it, but I did know that that was going to be an issue. So let’s write that one down. And when we come back to it and we’re trying to create this, you know, all those S’s, again, synergies across the silos. You heard it here first that you have some proof points. That’s really start to make sense when you’re kind of putting forward the ultimate plan.

Rena:

Yeah. Learning while contributing my favorite state of being. I love that. And speaking of the silos, I think, you know given where we’ve been particularly this past year, while you’re at KPMG, and now in AI, do you feel that those silos are being broken organically due to the pressures of all the things that are happening in our society and our, you know, in our businesses and with the pandemic and customers or clients demanding that there be that you have that companies that they do business with have a voice around things that they care about. Do you think that those silos organically being broken down a bit because of that? So do you, are you seeing more alignment between, let’s say as I am sales and marketing and product marketing and communications I feel like there’s been this great wonderful organic process that’s happened where everyone is now rallying behind, as you said, that, you know, what’s our goal, what’s our, what’s our mission and our purpose, and coming together with a universal unified sort of consistent voice for the organization to all intended audiences.

Rena:

Are you seeing that being a little bit now, particularly from a sales perspective or a biz dev perspective that I know you also bring to the Aon party you know, because you know, things are now and you can’t do those face-to-face meetings, you can’t do those, you know, going on the trips. So you can’t do in-person events and things like that. So where your typical sort of sales journey takes you, and now you’re more reliant on, let’s say, you know, marketing to provide those, to help and provide those things. And marketing is taking on more of a role of being a driver and accountable source of, of driving revenue. What are your thoughts around that?

Brian:

Hmm, that’s a, that’s a, that’s a good question. I think, I don’t know. I don’t know if this is the popular answer, but I, I don’t think that COVID or the pandemic has made anything better or different. You know what I mean? Like I still think that a lot of what needs to get done from a business perspective still needs to get done. We need to create the imperatives. We need to support them. We need to market them. We need campaign tactic activation. We need all of those things. One of the things I think that has happened is that digital transformation to enable marketing the way we never enabled marketing before with tools like Eloqua sales, cloud Salesforce, I mean, you could go on and on and name a bunch of new tools that are supporting the marketing or demand generation agenda.

Brian:

But I think the fundamental core components of marketing and business development, internal selling, getting your ideas blessed through leadership, coming up with a campaign plan, a marketing plan. I think all of that stuff has stayed the same. It’s all kind of part of it that some of the enabling technologies are way better than, you know, we talked about the eighties, you know, way better than, than that. But I think that the notion of the pandemic and everybody being out of the office has stretched out the process. The timeline from a to B, no matter what your kind of initiative or imperative is, it’s stretched. It stretches it out so much longer than perhaps in the past, right? Because with a zoom meeting, or you can ask every constituent that’s involved in the part in the process versus in the past, maybe there’s five, six, seven people that are, would, you know, this impacts, but through two or three of them are, you know, are kind of the spokespeople, the alpha males and females, and of a decision perhaps, and having a conversation and a blessing with them like, oh, if it’s okay with those, we’re good to go.

Brian:

And you can have that conversation walking down a hallway, perhaps, and popping into two offices while you’re in the office has completely changed. Now they want to talk to all 10 and it’s hard to get on calendars. So I think my point here is that while the fundamental nature of a lot of what you described is the same with, of course, the new enablement factors, but the, the process, the time it takes to have, you know, kind of corporate think and corporate approval has been strung out.

Rena:

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think the fundamentals still apply in good times and challenging ones, the fundamentals of, you know, making authentic connections building compelling narratives trying to nurture good enduring, sustainable, profitable relationships, driving revenue. I think those are fundamentals that are still there. I just, but I do believe however that the pandemic has allowed those silos to be broken a little bit, because it now allows everyone to come together necessary. It’s needed for us to come together and be unified because everyone needs to be able to contribute to and benefit from all of our efforts collectively. So I think that it is driven more cohesiveness and that unification of efforts and rallying behind you know, a good well-defined mission or purpose. So, the ways we have the ways we go about doing those things that I mentioned, I think have changed, but the fundamentals of doing them will always stand the test of time regarding the sort of organizational scope of industry marketing. Do you think it’s better to have functional areas of expertise that cut across all industries or industry specific lines of businesses where all of those functions are within the lov?

Brian:

Well, that is a lot to unpack that question. I mean, I think the answer for me is it depends. Okay. It depends on what the mission is, right? There’s the reason that we go to market by industry is because you need that deep degree of specialization when it comes to a vertical right. Government is different than retail and consumer marketing, because I mean, just the regulations are different or, you know, real estate or healthcare. I mean, all of that is completely different. And so the reason for industry marketing, is because you need to get an understanding of a deep dive all the way through the deepest components of what is going on in an industry. So to talk to a CCO at J and J is not going to be the same as talking to a CCO in the government sector. I mean, they may have similar issues around cybersecurity or something like that.

Brian:

But when you’re talking about healthcare regulation and government regulation, there’s definitely overlap. But I think if you’re really trying to move the bar, then the first part of your question, which is more important. Yeah. I think that you definitely need that level of industry specificity because people that need help in the advisory space, you know, that just the nature of the word advisory means they need somebody that really understands the ins and outs and the details and all of the tactical components of that industry in order to be helpful. I think the other end of the spectrum of the question where it really, why I was saying it depends is because there are some areas that are, I don’t know, call it solution specific and solution appropriate. So if you’re talking about cyber security, the topic, right? So that when we were talking about the COVID piece of this, like what has, what is going to be sticking around after COVID?

Brian:

And so the fact that we’ve had to literally do and make a digital transformation in what people were working on with, you know, year long horizon year with that plural years long horizons, but it seems like we had to do it in a matter of weeks, you know? So, so cybersecurity is something that is solution specific, and that is drastically important just because of the nature of just some of the things that we’ve seen with the pipeline and shutting things down and ransomware, like it becomes like this crazy, crazy new paradigm that at the solution specific level is, is got it is, is almost an imperative in itself. Yes. There’s an industry specific component to those different, and I’m just using cyber as an, as an example. But functionally as a, at the solution level that is massively important.

Rena:

Do you have people who are dedicated to a specific industry or do they have functions that cuts across all industries? Or do you have a mixture of both? How are you, how are you structured there?

Brian:

Yeah. It’s wide and it’s deep and it’s both. And so I think like Aon and KPMG, like they, they cut across all of those different, the verticals at the national, at the enterprise level. And you have to have all, all of that. I think so I don’t, so my answer for the question Rena is really, it, it really, you know, you have to look at the, you know, what is it specifically that you’re talking about? And then we have to apply the appropriate lens, right. And it’s, they’re not easy easy questions either. I think part of the cyber resiliency equation is really trying to get an understanding of where you are and I’m just using, I mean, it just it’s topical because we’re just kind of talking about it. And it’s kind of fresh in my mind over, just over the weekend and just kind of reflecting on a lot of the things that have happened over the last couple of weeks.

Brian:

And and, and so I, you know, I think that that part of the work that even just a on does is just because of the nature of the magnitude of the size of the organization, if so much data, and they have so many, you know, they’re offering cyber insurance. And so they have so much information and data about that topic that it cuts across industry. It cuts across the functional level. They have diagnostics, they have ransomware bundles. If you actually get into the sticky situation of, okay, what if something now something just happened. So the fact that, that that some, a company, the size of Aon has so much content and familiarity and benchmarking and data, that they become a great service provider to really help a member. We’re talking about advising, advising, and advisory. They become a great kind of thinking partner when it comes to your specific situation. That’s really, my point kind of depends where you are and then showing up with the right kind of medicine for that situation.

Rena:

Yeah. And I think that makes a case for the end of the more industry specific point that you made earlier was, you know, clients are expecting someone, a partner who really understands the nuances of their specific industry, which is really important. I know that I personally I’ve experienced leading teams for both organizational structure types. And I think it, it does depend on the type of the size of your company. I think it depends on the complexity of your product or service offerings and and the market opportunities. And I think that there are advantages and disadvantages for both, but I would generally lean towards some more industries specific if feasible to do so. It gives you more skin in the game for driving and being accountable for results and shared goals. And it accommodates that deeper industry expertise, you know, customers are demanding it, and it also allows for, you know, the trend of evolving, you know, making those human connections and coming with those insights.

Rena:

You know, you said Aon is a company that has lots of thought leadership and lots of data to be able to customize that data specifically for a customer undergoing specific pain points due to their industry, I think is a real value proposition in today’s marketplace. So do you think that from your perspective, the strategies, and I know you’re just being there and trying to nail that down now, are you sort of thinking about that as you think about your team structure? Is that something you can talk about without giving away any trade secrets? Can you tell us more about how that is brought to life for you, their industry marketing at Aon?

Brian:

Yeah. Well so just, just kind of finishing up your last point. I do hope that, you know, everyone realizes just the power of industry, and I think that’s why I’m in this, this new role is really to, to apply that degree of rigor that you just talked about, Rena in kind of a, in a north American perspective. So our industry marketing program is, I think I’m not sure who used to say it, but it was somebody at KPMG. It was at a guys to work with named Pat Dolan. He always used to say, we don’t have enough marketing people on the planet to, to cover all of the imperatives that are either at a geographic level, like industry marketing at a geo level industry marketing at an industry industry level. Like we just don’t, I mean, you could always use more kind of marketing support because so many different things get carved up as a, in a, in a marketing role perhaps, or especially if you’re a kind of Plaza marketing sales inside sales, sales enablement, take your pick.

Brian:

But from an Aon perspective, it is, it is industry marketing aligned to industry leaders, senior industry leaders across the north and across north America, that’s the way it’s structured now. And then it is trying to kind of lewd through enterprise wide campaigns that are built at the national level and in accordance to what the specific industries are looking for. So from a marketing perspective, everyone is kind of rallying around cybersecurity workforce resilience as a kind of another one there’s again like an Aon perspective. There’s so much data about workforce pension plans pooled employment plans, like, like there’s so much there that it needs that it needs that industry specificity, but it also needs a national or an enterprise wide approach because you need to make sure that the data that we were talking about that, that we’re all of that, that information is aggregated is cut the right way, is specific to industry.

Brian:

It’s got, you know, you know, for you, marketing is just one part of the equation. Like you could have the cyber security for healthcare campaign and campaign tactic activation plan. But if you don’t have any delivery resources, then it’s problematic as you as if you, you know, you know, you do a great job selling the, selling the notion and everybody’s raising their hand and, but yet you can’t deliver it, then you’ve shot yourself in the foot as well. So I think all of this stuff that we’ve been talking about is really just this wonderful marriage of industry specific, nationally specific. I don’t want to say specific, but nationally organized service delivery, delivery, service delivery being delivered well all of that is kind of one big snowball of importance when it comes to kind of driving value. And that’s the name of the game? Do you, how do you, Brian, how do you aid on, how do you KPMG, how do you drive value for your stakeholders?

Rena:

Yeah, and I think those individuals, strategic drivers are married to, and I think maybe this is what you’re getting at too. Brian is really that those individuals, strategic drivers are really aligned with an overarching strategic, you know, value proposition that the company that the company has. So whether it’s industry specific clients specific, whatever, or, you know, it really needs to sort of roll up into, or be aligned with an overarching you know, strategy. And then that’s so, so you’re, you’re having this one overarching consistent voice, but it is customized and tailored to what the value drivers are for each in each a specific industry. So is that right? Yeah. So I’m curious to know, as we’re finally beginning to see some light at the end of the COVID-19 tunnel, that we’re all gleefully running towards. I’d love to know how you are planning to lean more into that in Aon’s purpose or mission from a marketing perspective.

Brian:

Right. So so like I said, I am about four months in, and if we talk about just getting back to the basics and fundamentals, and we just, on the last question, we just kind of touched on it. And so I’m going to just expand on it here because they just, the fundamental part of value is really the driver, right? So my listening tour is really like, I have a point of view, right? I think, you know, I, you know, just my knowing what KPMG it was working on, just knowing the clients in banking, what they’ve been working on and just my own self study, you know, I definitely have a point of view, but I really want to make sure I understand the value that is needed for, from each one of my stakeholders. And they’re all different. There’s the, they all have this level of things that are important to them.

Brian:

And I want to make sure that we’re rallying them underneath the, the, the campaign strategies that the firm has in mind and the, and the thematic approach that the firm is taking, you know, from an enterprise wide perspective, remember DAU, it’s not just north America, there’s a lot more of Aon besides just what is in us and Canada. Right. So so spending time, like asking them straight up, you know, what’s valuable for you, what’s 30, 60, 90 look like for you. How, how do you feel about workplace resiliency? How do you feel about cyber security? How do you feel about the pandemic in caviar, capital acquisition? Like, how do you feel about all of those things? And then if you had a laundry list of, of activations that you’re thinking about from a marketing perspective, and maybe it’s just give me a, you know, I can, I can’t do everything, but I can do a few things.

Brian:

So let’s start to prioritize to prioritize them from smallest to largest let’s 30, 60, 90 day, because at the end of that 90 days, I want you to feel like I got some value and that this value and relationship development and being new and evolving into kind of a trusted advisor, perhaps just from a, from an internal perspective, it can’t get away from it until you deliver some value. And so try to pick some things that, that you can achieve, make sure they’re part of the, the corporate or the corporate agenda, you know, as best you can sometimes they’re not, you know, sometimes we go back to the silos and, you know, it’s not a perfect world, but, but delivery because it’s important to a stakeholder, it’s sometimes there’s a side project that’s worth the effort. So I’m trying to, you know, listen, deliver value from smallest to largest prioritize.

Brian:

And then, and then it goes back to just being visible, right? Learn their business, you know, invite yourself to their meetings, ask questions. I’m new. I want to learn more. I want to learn how you do it. And then just remember my success model, you know, 75% is just showing up. And when you show up with energy and integrity and being courageous and asking questions, cause I think that starts to speak volumes because there’s a lot of corporate speak that comes like, yeah, I really want to help and understand the challenges you’re facing versus yeah, I want that. But here I am at your meetings here, you know, and there’s, you know, there’s a lot of industry leaders, so they recognize when people and industry marketing is showing up.

Rena:

I agree. Yeah. I think that’s a really good point. I would, I would also add that learning not only what you do and how you do it, but also why you do it is important, right? Because that knowledge and that understanding impacts the decisions that we make and the actions that we, that we take you know, going forward. I also like what you said about, you know, the value defining it’s our jobs to identify and define what those value attributes are that are most important to each stakeholder group or intended audience because value means different things to different people and then creating those compelling narratives and deliverables around the relevant value within their context. I think is key. Yeah.

Brian:

I love that. Can I steal some of that language plagiarism? There goes plagiarism. Plagiarism 101, it just happened. So well said, well said.

Rena:

Thank you. Okay. So let’s let’s take a turn. Let’s see you talk about some of the key lessons that you’ve earned and learned along the way, Brian.

Brian:

Hmm. I would say, and I don’t even know that it’s a business lesson. I just really like to treat everybody with respect and treat them well, it could be a contractor working in your house. It could be your team. I think just really being kind of observant, go, go back to Louise, you know, just kind of being observant and not necessarily getting, getting worked up in the, in the details, but just being kind of there for an understanding of what people are just generally going through. And it’s kind of like a keen observation, a keen observational strength, you know, good soul, you know, just like good human being. And I think that’s my, my number one. And then my, my number two is, you know, and my old bosses is that’d be like the only person that needs to know about whose idea it was or who gets the air quotes credit is your boss.

Brian:

And the only reason they need to know is because you get incentive comp and you get a raise and you get a performance review. So in my opinion, they need to know how the ideas evolve, what the story of the idea is. Who else helped you? I mean, I think part of that is kind of getting the, the architecture of credibility and credit but make it somebody else’s idea, you know what I mean? Like once that has been established and your boss is good, then how do I make it the team’s idea? How do I make it? One of my concerns, stakeholders idea, as part of you know, getting to the end state of what everyone really wants, which is value success. We need a successful project. So it almost doesn’t matter. So those are two things. I, I think your trick, you know, especially if your team has, and just being observant and trying to understand that work is work, but everybody has lives and they’re complicated. And just trying to be a, kind of a good soul about all of that. And then kind of giving away the credit. It would be my two top favorites.

Rena:

Yeah. I think what you’re saying, you know, demonstrating empathy, compassion, and a desire to genuinely connect is so very helpful and our lives and certainly in our work. And I agree it really, when you’re, when you’re all part of a team working for something and contributing to something that’s bigger than yourself, it doesn’t really matter where the ideas come from. It just matters that the ideas are coming and they’re getting acted upon. And, you know, it’s a, win-win for everyone involved. So I really I like that. I like that approach again. What do you look for when you’re hiring new talent? Is there any specific, those are those, the traits that you look for, and maybe you’ve answered that question. What we just talked about, are those the specific skills or traits that you look for when you’re hiring new talent?

Brian:

Yeah. I mean, I think, I mean, I’ve grown up in matrix organizations, right? So a lot of times there is no clear hierarchy, old line of, you know, chain of command, right. There’s, it’s all over the place. And even when there is the chain of command is still all over the place. So one of the most important things is you gotta be, self-motivated like all of those, you know, integrity, you know, energy and, you know, being courageous, that’s all part of it, but you have to be self-motivated. That’s what I look for in a new hire, somebody that communicates well, I mean, I think part of, of any internal sale is being a good communicator understanding like, all we’ve been talking about Rena, is like, if I’ve been in your meetings, if I’ve tried to understand your business, if I’ve asked, I’m asking good questions, I’m doing more than most to really make sure that I’m coming correct with a good recommendation or, or, or suggestion it’s it’s because I people see you there.

Brian:

So somebody’s gotta be able to kind of be a you know, a self-motivated good communicator. You gotta be willing to have an open mind and learn, like it’s a lot of work to learn somebody’s business. And two, it takes a lot of time out of your regular day in the regular workload that you have to show up at other people’s meetings. Sometimes, you know, you gotta get yourself invited and and, and show up there and offer a suggestion or to not be a fly on the wall. I mean, certainly there’s, you know, absorption and things like that, but to be courageous and to suggest, and to work within the team. And, and that’s the last of it is like people that are good team players are the ones that you really kind of want on your team, right. They work well with others. I think we’ve all had our share of, of people that maybe were, maybe we were better kind of working solo and things like that. So, so the things that was the things I’m, I look for, you know, team player, you know, willingness to learn and get involved, you know, good communication skills, but mostly, you know, self motivated and with energy and passion and kind of a good outlook, positive outlook.

Rena:

Great. And what advice would you give to someone who’s interested in doing what you’re doing or have done in your career?

Brian:

Well, again, I always reflect back on mentors, you know, I’m so passionate about mentorship. And like I said, I, you know, once I got made, you know, I just started absorbing and learning. And so one of my other kind of theme, favorite quotes is everyone has heard the old average adage. You know, it’s not what, you know, it’s who, you know, when people say it all the time, but I would change it to be it’s not what you know, but who knows you, like, who knows Brian companion versus you know, who do I know? Like, like that’s great that I know three of these, you know, decision makers for a project I’m working on, but do they know me? Did I, do they know who I am? Because if that’s the case and they know what, what I kind of stand for and the things that I’m looking to achieve, then I think that’s a huge piece of advice I would recommend.

Brian:

Right. So, so making sure you’re you’re relevant and that people know who you are, because it’s the power of relationships. We talk about fundamentals. Like that’s the most fundamental of all that is like as a, as a father and my two kids that is, if you could only share one imperative, it’s like the power of relationships is going to drive your success or your non success, like the people that, you know, and the people that know you we’ll help. We’ll help kind of keep you moving in the, in the right direction. And then I would say, you know, this, I mean, maybe it’s kind of a little bit sophomore to say, you know, just because so much of the life lessons that you can almost apply to your, your college aged kid, no children is blame, no one, like there’s, if it’s your project, there could be a million reasons why things went wrong or right. But blame, no one that is another key. And, you know, I told my son this all the time and my daughter, as well as you know, who who’s in, you know, she’s in the digital animation, the art field is people like working with people. They like, so, you know, stay positive. All of those things that we talked about really like we’ve been saying the whole time, it’s the fundamentals, and maybe not so much the, you know, the fancy esoteric acts that really helped drive success and help people kind of achieve their objectives.

Rena:

Wow. Okay. Great, great great advice. So in the spirit of our beloved Brené Brown, tell us about a time when you chose courage over comfort when you risked failure, but showed up anyway.

Brian:

Well, this podcast is my first podcast ever. So maybe that is a little bit of courage.

Rena:

Fantastic job. And I’m honored to be your first. Yeah. I didn’t know that.

Brian:

You ever forget your first, first podcast. So so certainly a kind of moment for me, so that, so that would be, you know, one example, I guess maybe in my new role, like every day you, you, you risk failure with every single interaction, right? You’re, you’re, you’re new and this whole, Hey, I’m Brian and I’m new kind of fades fast right there. You can only use that for a little while. And I think just kind of being comfortable in your skin when you do choose courage over comfort, right. Is kind of, you know, I ha maybe it’s just this, it’s like this weird calculation just, I’ve kind of come up with over these last few months. And that is, you know, 70% of what I do. I know at this stage of the game is going to be completely average, right? It’s going to be, it’s going to be good.

Brian:

20% will be bad. It will be wrong. I’ll be way off. I will, it will be what we call a mistake, but, but 10% will be creative and compelling and thought provoking, maybe even great. And so 70, 2010, well, I think, I think at this stage of the game, that is something where you’re, you’re choosing courage over comfort. If you can kind of fall back to that 70, you know, 70% will be pretty good and 20% will be bad. Okay. And then 10% will be spectacular. I think that we should give you some, some impetus for choosing that, that path to go forward and can give it a try to rip it and try and to, to get into that, you know, understanding of like the value proposition and we’re meeting people where they are.

Rena:

Wow. I absolutely love, love that formula because it talks about, you know, who you are based on where you are right now, what you bring and what folks can expect from you. I’m gonna, I’m going to have now it’s my turn to say, I’m going to, to steal that one for myself. I might flip that. I might flip the ratios are just those specific just a bit, but it’s brilliant. And and I lead, it leads very nicely into my last question for you, which is what are some of your favorite go-to resources to keep you informed and Babel ready to deliver on those expectations? That you’ve said based on that formula?

Brian:

Well, I think you guys all know the first one, it’s my mentors, right? So they are my safe space and no idea is a bad one. And, you know, sometimes the feedback is a little bit painful. It, you know, it can give you an, you know, an algebra two. But it’s always given especially if you’ve chosen your mentors carefully, it’s always given with love and respect. Right. So, so that’s, so that’s part of, so I’m always going to my mentors, even if I don’t like the answer. I know that that, it’s it, you know, it’s, there’s, there’s nothing more behind that answer then experience and respect and really trying to make sure that like, like you always say, Rena tried to make people shy. Right. So, mentors would be one of my absolute go-to resources. I think your team, like it’s so important to constantly pulse check yourself with your team.

Brian:

And so there, a lot of times, they just, because of the nature of hierarchies there, they don’t tell you everything. And just being respectful at times. I mean, maybe there’s things that you really should know that they’re hearing and they have to feel comfortable about that discussion, right? So I’m battle ready and informed. I want my team giving me the latest, I want to know all of the details about certain ideas or things that we’re proposing, right. Even if they’re bad, like bad is, is, they’re not really, they’re just challenges. And if you know that in advance, then you’re not necessarily centrally walking into landmine. So my team is always my go-to resource. And then if you’re just, and you could probably go on and on about, you know, all the different, different components and people that kind of provide you safe Harbor, but like if you’re talking about the, kind of the, the new way, the new technology way, I, I don’t know if anybody is you know, investing in Robin hood, but they have a thing called Robin hood snacks, which is this really kind of short compendium of industry it’s cause it’s very industry driven, all of the latest things that have happened from an industry perspective, whether it be crypto or you know, healthcare risks that they do a really nice job.

Brian:

And then the last of course, I think is just Google videos. Like I I’ve learned how to do tiling and a lot of other things step by step, you just type in what you’re looking for and voilà you know, outcomes, a video on how to do that particular thing.

Rena:

I agree with you, I’m with you on Google and Google videos. There’s so much helpful information and learning opportunities online. I often find myself, don’t you going down this well-designed rabbit holes of related articles and videos and, and write papers, et cetera. I have to force myself to stop. Just like, I can’t believe how quickly our time has passed Brian. And I, I this has been such a, such a great discussion. And again, if you didn’t openly share that this was your very first podcast interview, I would never have guessed it because you have shown up like the courageous champion. I know you to be, so thank you for gifting us with your time for sharing your valuable perspectives, experiences, and wisdom. It’s been such a great pleasure chatting with you as always

Brian:

Loved it. You know, anytime you want to have me back, let’s pick up some new topics. I I’d love to opine on those as well, for sure.

Rena:

I think that sounds great. And to our audience, thanks so very much for listening. I hope you found this episode worthy of your time. If so, please feel free to share it with someone who might also benefit from our discussion comment, like, and, or follow us on our signature intentions, social media channels, and remember that you are never alone in the professional challenges and opportunities we’re facing today, because you’re always welcome to join me and my guests warriors right here, in the Arena.